S6, E9 Francesca Busca | Eco‑artivist and waste mosaicist

In this episode, we meet eco‑artivist, rubbish artist, and waste mosaicist Francesca Busca. Known for transforming discarded materials into what she calls “trashure”, Francesca has built a practice that merges art, activism, and environmental urgency. Since 2017, she has created mosaics entirely from waste, using textile scraps, unrecyclable aluminium, scrap paper, and even marine debris recovered through Project One Wave.

A former City of London solicitor, Francesca left the legal world in 2015 to pursue art full‑time. She later graduated with distinction from the London School of Mosaic, where she also lectured between 2021 and 2022. 

Francesca’s eco‑artivism extends far beyond her studio. She lives a low‑impact lifestyle rooted in veganism, renewable energy, second‑hand clothing, plastic avoidance, local food sourcing, water conservation, and even four years of flight‑free living.

Episode recorded on 13 January 2026. 

Website: www.francescabusca.art

Instagram: @francesca_busca

Podcast details:
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Website: www.artiststales.net
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Transcript

I'd like to welcome Francesca Busca to this episode of Artist Tales. She's an eco artivist rubbish artist and waste mosaic assist, and her work challenges our relationship with consumption and the materials we discard. Since 2017, she has created all her artworks entirely from waste, transforming scraps, debris, and unrecyclable materials into what she calls trasher.

So welcome, Francesca. It's lovely to have you. Hi. Thank you for having me. It's good to be here. Excellent. Well, it's great to have you. Now let's start in the, let's start at the beginning then. Yes. Um, would you like to tell us a bit more about you, because I, I find it fascinating that you started off as actually as a solicitor Yes.

In the city of London and they're now an artist. So how was that journey like what. What happened? Okay, so we're going back to the very beginning. Yes. So yeah, so my background is actually in the classics, um, dead languages really, and then the law. So I've been a citizen solicitor for a while, and then I had my children and I decided I was gonna be the one to.

To make them, you know, to make 'em grow, to be with them once they were growing basically. Uh, and uh, but then of course I wanted to go back to work. Uh, you go insane. Otherwise people don't react. You know, working for a mother is good. No, I love them two bits. But anyway, you know, I wanted to go back to work obviously, but I just.

Thought at this point, I'm not gonna go back to law, but I'm gonna go back to what I really like doing, which is art. Actually, ever since I was little, you know, I would sell the paintings and the drawings on the street, or I'd go and take the used wax from the churches, you know, from the trays. Take it home, uh, reheat it on a, in a tin, really.

Uh, I mean, nowadays they'll call social services. I guess my children do that, but, uh, and then I would just sculpt it. And then even when I was a city solicitor, I would model clay like frantically really. Um, I think it was a way to, you know, let it out. Art is very therapeutic as we know in all of its forms, I guess.

And then. When I wanted to go back to work, um, I remember actually taking the children again to Aquileia, which is um, this big basilica in Italy. Um. From the Roman times where they keep discovering new layers of mosaics, Roman mosaics. And next to it there was a little shop with some precut tiles, uh, to make, you know, your own mosaic, uh, Mabo tiles.

And, um, I remember I was hooked. I think I spent five days, uh, day and night working on it. I wouldn't know when, you know, when it was day or night. Eaten when was the last time I slept because of course, actually there was a trip on the way to my, um, my parents-in-law where I left them for a few days. So that was completely my time and I used it all on this and I was hooked.

So as soon as I went back to London, I found a place where to do mosaics. And then I graduated in it, you know, the London School of Mosaics. Um, I also lectured a fabrication there, but then from that. I moved on to doing what I do now, which is basically using waste, you know, replacing these precious materials with waste to blunder less mother earth really?

So as, really as prime material, you know, not just to make a point, which I also do, but I started just by using them instead of, you know, this marble and smiley and ceramics and glass and what, what have you. And then of course, um. You know, to me art is the closest to universal language. And so it is, uh, essential to develop empathy between us and to communicate.

And, uh, uh, that's why also I think it's, uh, you know, the best form of expression to identify what a society was like in the past, so you know, is now. And so I think it's also, again, a big social, has a big social impact and some. That's why I use art to again, develop empathy, uh, towards life and all of its forms.

And, uh, also, you know, to advocate for a systemic change that I believe we really need to have from this, uh, disposable, uh, and anthropocentric society to one that's based on the common good of the whole of all creatures, you know? Mm-hmm. So. I hope that answered the question. I think it does. No, I think it really does.

Before we start exploring why you're drawn to waste and, and using that material, I'm quite interested in the, in what I, in some of the words I used in, in an introduction like Eco artivist, rubbish artist, and way waste. So those are kind of your self descriptions. Yes. So what, why? Yes. You hit the, I think the nail on the head here because, um, they all have a reason for being there.

So eco artivism is my philosophy, right? Which I just explained whilst rubbish artist or actually trash artist is, uh, the material I use. So I only use rubbish, but actually it's reher because in my view, it becomes something precious. Do you see? Not something that has to be discarded, uh, or disposed of as soon as possible, but rather something that has meaning and value and intrinsic value as well, you know, for being what it is already.

So, um, and then Waste Mosaic is my style, which is actually a niche, very niche. Style being the only one I know of in the world actually, who does that? And uh, and in fact, yeah, I just had, uh, someone from New Zealand coming to interview Wow. From, you know, mosaic Association over there. And, uh, yeah. So having said that, mosaic, uh.

Quite good in that sense. I think even historical, Romans would use all the waste they had, you know, uh, like broken, uh, terracotta or ferraz, uh, to, to, to, to make tiles for their mosaic so they would reuse as much as possible. Having said that, nowadays they will do that with crockery, but still they are quite limited, I think, in scope because of what mosaics is, you know, first of all.

But also because they try to, they still see it as somewhat traditional. Tiles. So they have to be, you know, um, hard, they have to be of a similar height and they have to be, um, able to stick with the same adhesive that you would for normal mosaic. Whilst the way I do it is, first of all, you know, it's, it's such a journey, but first of all, I try to use only materials that are non-recyclable.

So, you know, the less recyclable, the better. So those things that actually would end up in landfill or, you know, being burnt. With some exceptions, of course. And, and secondly, adhesive wise, I also try to use whatever I find that's more eco-friendly, uh, being I think PVA being the most eco-friendly one that you can ever possibly have.

But of course the beauty, I think that, uh, in my journey is that discovery of. For each item, each new item that I use that will be a new adhesive that will work. Not everything works on everything plastic, especially, you know, there's hundreds of different kinds and they will react differently to cement or PVA or you know, whatever it is.

So, um, but I'm enjoying that part of, of my journey. Definitely. And I think in some ways you've kind of answered the question I alluded to of the materials you use. So it sounds like, as you said, with the trash art, you're kind of using things that people discard to create value. And I found it interesting also with the mosaics, uh, you know, the waste kind of mosaics.

Um. Yeah, actually, sorry, because again, thank you for bringing this up again. I call it what's Mosaic because I actually reworked the material in details, whether they're recognizable or not. Uh, it doesn't really matter nowadays. Um, as long as the. The concept is conveyed anyway, regardless of the tiles themselves.

That's just an extra step, you know? And I do like it actually when people get close and say, but what is that? And then you tell them, oh, that's an ATE bottle. Or you know, medicine bio, oh, fruit net, whatever. And they go like, oh, I like that. But the art itself, you know, is, uh, whether it is, I don't know, Marine, um.

Environment that I reproduce, like a precious garden. You know, like those that, uh, we find in mythology and religion as the nonplus Ultra, you know, the, the paradise or the fields or. You know, you name it. Uh, just to make people understand that we can actually have it here on earth, both above and below the waves, if only we learn how to take proper care of them.

And especially oceans at the moment are in a very critical state. So it's more of a, nowadays it's unfortunately, it's more like our memory of it, our idea, uh, idyllic, you know, idea of this, uh, of this, uh, world under the waves, which, uh, is actually dying. So it's quite a critical moment right now, I think, to face this, uh, this issue.

There's, there's so many things that pop into mind, but I think the thing that came in my mind initially at first is it sounds like your work, whether it's the mosaics or other type of art that you do, is kind of a starting point for a conversation. So, you know, people can say, well, what is that? Which then can lead into other things, you know, around.

Ecology, how we treat the earth, how we treat each other. Have you, you know, that's, to me what it sounds like. Have you, is that something you've experienced? I'm so glad you say this actually, because, uh, yes. To me, art is a dialogue. So, so much so that most of the time if I have a, a pv, you know, a private viewing, I would just say, uh, art is a dialogue.

Come and engage. You know, they will be my line to get people in because again, you know, I'm also an activist when I can, um, part of, for example, project One Wave, which is this, um. This, uh, network of people created mainly by Captain Port Watson Foundation, uh, which, which contains marine biologists, businesses, artists, activists, you know, you name them, uh, who are all together for the common good and actually to solve, uh, plastic pollution in the ocean.

And so. That's exactly what I do. I actually believe that if we want to make a change, you know, and grow this wave of change as we like to call it, we have to, um, connect all sectors of society and there's nothing better to do that than art. Itself as a starting point. Art is what gets people going, gets the people opening up instinctively as well.

'cause that is the beauty of art. Not only visual arts, you know, it could be music, it could be theater. It just opens you up without you realizing how fast and how efficiently it it can, it can do so. Right. I mean, good art I think is that that in just few seconds it brings you to. Something else. It brings it to a feeling, it brings it to a memory, it brings it to a whole concept, you know, then, then just the whole world opening up and uh, and that's when marine biologists come in, you know, as can actually bridge the two worlds, uh, very well, which is what I did actually with the Institute of Marine Sciences in Venice, where I had a yearlong collaboration and then a residency and, and I'm still actually collaborating with them whenever I can.

And so that's also the only way I think we can close this circle of sustainability for as much as I hate that word 'cause it's overused and no one really knows what it is. Not many people have even heard of Earth overshoot day, which is the day in which, you know, we've used up the resources we are allowed to use for that here.

Meaning that can be replenished in time, you know? Um, but anyway, so if we want to close this. Sustainability. We need to know what happens to that object or, or that, uh, that thing, that system, you know, that whatever it is, uh, before it enters our world and after when it leaves it, you know, it's a matter of, uh, knowledge and responsibility I guess, that we all need to take, uh, if we want to sort out this, uh, this, this crisis, shall we call it crisis.

And also, not only I realize, sorry, I keep on going, but I think this is. And it's all about the dialogue again, you know, it's, uh, there really is a huge power in numbers. And, uh, I only realized it actually just when I was 50 already. Imagine, you know, it took me 50 years to realize the, the, the, the importance, like the, the length to which this, uh, saying is actually accurate.

And we were, um, with Project One Way, we were doing a beach cleaning We Cambra, which is this beautiful paradise island actually up in Scotland. Um, and, uh. Uh, we started collecting all these, uh, plastic and rubbish on the beach, and I remember I collected one, one cap, you know, in plastic cap and it disintegrated under my.

You know, in, in my hand. And 'cause it was so brittle and I felt so guilty 'cause I followed all these little bits that had fallen onto the, the beach in between the sand. And I checked and I saw that there were so many others. And then, you know, looking down, I just saw it was full all the way to the sea.

And that's when I realized how mercilessly, you know, it had infiltrated our, our, our system nature and, uh, how, you know. Irrevocably almost, you know, and I felt so powerless and I would've left it there, quite frankly, thinking, you know, what am I doing? There's just no point. It's just, you know, a little drop in the ocean.

But then looking around and seeing all these other 30. Something, people around me all together gave me such strengths and such, you know, I, I started believing again somehow. And, uh, and that's what we need. That's, that's what I think there is such a unifying strengths, honestly, in, in numbers, in, you know, in communities.

And I think the way after this crisis really is in from communities. Building communities that can help each other collaborate rather than, you know, hating each other and dividing and fighting over drops of water. Mm-hmm. It works much better, you know, if we collect the water together and you know, one collects it, the other filters it, et cetera, et cetera, just to give you, you know, a little example.

Hopefully we won't get to that, but if we do, well, I think we're seeing, seeing elements of it in, in many ways where as you're talking, I was thinking too, we're seeing. Increasingly very drastic environmental, you know, like weather, you know, environment, the environmental impact of like extreme, more extreme weather.

Yes. You know, and it's not just affecting, you know, from a kind of, if you're sitting in what's. Often called the Western world. It's not just, oh, it's over there in Africa or in Asia. It's actually affecting everybody. Absolutely. And it's not just, you know, it's disproportionately affecting the poor nations and poor people.

Yes. But it's now starting to affect everybody and we're seeing parts of, let's say, California. The forest fires. Yeah. And you know, and it's, that is, it can very easily descend into, you're fighting over those droplets of water. Yes. No, and actually they are already fighting for water in, uh, in courts at the moment in Italy, in Europe, in the US as you know, you know, they are really fighting over rivers and um, it will become quite, quite paramount I think, collaboration.

Rather than, you know, division. Um, so we shall see. I really do believe that that is essential, which is also the reason why. Sorry, maybe I'll preempt some of the questions you wanted to ask, but which is also the reason why I also created this, um, collective. I was gonna ask you about that. Yeah, yeah. Which I'm so excited about, which really follows the same principle as Project One Way.

It's just starting with art and artists rather than, uh, science say, and, and activists. Um, yeah. So. We'll talk more about that later, maybe, but No, tell me more about the, the collective and, you know, could you also, uh, remind me of the name of it as well? Yes. It's called Greeny. Bastar. Okay. Lost the name.

Someone said once you hear it. Yes. But basically we want to, um, make a difference, uh, through kind, but, uh, determined activism. Actually rather, but sorry. And, uh, what we're doing is, uh, well we do various things, but let's just say that it all revolves mainly around one, um, event that we do each year, which this year will be in June, between the 18th and the 28th in London at the Building Center of Road Road during London Climate Action Week.

So I will be a 10 day exhibition, uh, which actually, you know, it, it, um. It revolves around six urgencies that we've identified, say. So we'll have a very, I think overall 24, 30 artists dealing with each one of these urgencies. And for each of them there will be some scientists who will be there to give the facts and, you know, ready to answer any question that the public might have.

Um, we will have academics, um. We will have activists, businesses, again, you know, lots of people from all sorts, and they will be speaking at the last weekend where we have lots again of events, panels, q and a workshops, et cetera. So yeah, I hope, I hope we'll get to, to get lots of people to come, you know, and, and, and join us really, because it's, uh, again, as you say, it's, it's a dialogue that will keep on going.

I was just thinking as you're talking, you know, I think like what you're saying, you know, something like climate or something like the ecosystem seems massive and it's in many ways unfathomable, I think for many people, and I think many, yes. Oh, thank you for that as well. Because in fact, that's another thing that I want to do exactly that, because you know, we talk a lot.

We do things, we all do our things individually. The point is everyone can be an activist if only they knew what they could do. Most of the time when I give the eco activist talks, I notice that there's people who already are involved one way or another in doing something. They just don't know how to amplify it, how to do it properly, or what they could do if, you know they have the time, but they don't know how.

So at these events, we will have like. The interactive game that people will play before leaving whereby, uh, we will narrow down their answers and we will give them, at the end of it a couple of things that they can do actively as soon as they walk out to the door or even before, whether it is, you know, joining a local cleaning group, whether it is becoming a member of an an activist organization or signing a petition.

People don't realize that. We only need a hundred thousand signatures in the UK for, uh, for something to be, uh, debated in parliament. There's how many millions in London? You know, a hundred thousand is probably just a few neighborhoods, so that really can make a difference. So we'll give them, you know, the means to find out.

Where, uh, they can find, you know, the petition, who is in charge of things, who they can follow to know more, et cetera, et cetera. So definitely that is the point. Everyone can be an activist, even from your own bed. You can be an activist, you know, you don't need to go to these, uh, you know, remote islands.

And, and how about the people who, because it sounds like the people. Who are coming to some of these events, you know, with the group you're involved in. Al already started that journey, you know, and I was also thinking of people who perhaps think this is too overwhelming. You know, what can I do? You know, I'm just a little person, or, you know, yes.

I'm not gonna make an impact. So, I mean, how do we, how do you see reaching out to them and, and I guess part of that too is. Does the art make it a bit more, palatable is not the right word, but a little bit more accessible, a little bit more actually, even my little bit. Yes. Yes. And you know what I think it is?

It's just giving people the enthusiasm to do things. Just making them understand that everyone can do something and everything we do matters. Everything, everyone does matters. We as humans have such a huge impact on the world. Um, we've destroyed entire ecosystems, but we've also made entire ecosystems.

You know, we've a repopulated, reil it entire, um, desert. Areas of the world. So we also need to see that we can be a force for good. And once people realize that, I think they will start with little things. You know, no one is perfect. Obviously I'm a little bit of an OCD in this respect. You know, I can help myself. 

I'm vegan for many reasons now, only eco-friendly. Reasons, you know, for the animals as well. Um, only wear secondhand clothes. I tend not to fly. I only fly when I really, really have to. I manage not to fly for four years in a row. Then my children said, mom, you do know we live in society anyway, don't you?

Can we go on holiday? Please do a remote location, you know, exotic location, which was actually Crete, uh, which is quite close. To us, but still beautiful, you know? So now I am a little bit more relaxed than that. Um, and then, you know, I only use renewable energy. Uh, there's lots of little things that we can do.

We can start. Hmm. Quite frankly, if I had to recommend something to someone, would be to try to be vegan. Try to be vegan for one day. See what happens. Try to be vegan for one week. See what happens. Try to see what's behind actually the meat that you eat. Because meat is a life, you know, it's animals and if we love animals, we don't kill animals.

And there's no difference between a pig or a cat or a dog or a cow. You know, they're all equally clever. If not actually, cow pigs tend to be even more, most likely. But, um. So, but that, that is a personal thing, but I think we should at least open our eyes because we have been brainwashed into under believing that this is normal.

But there's nothing normal about farmed animals. And, uh, emotional dissociation also has, um, repercussions in our society. Uh, there's been a couple of studies, actually very interesting studies. One, especially from a university in Germany. I don't remember exactly what Sage, I guess, but where, which actually states there is a huge correlation between, um, the meat market and, and, uh, criminal behavior and violence in, uh, in society in general.

A bit because of emotional dissociation, of course, and a bit also because the people who work in those, uh, in those, uh, industries, um, have to switch empathy off or they wouldn't be able to do what they do. And that of course, they bring home to their children, to their wife, to their friends, the children bring it to school, et cetera, et cetera.

So it's a vicious circle that we really need to stop. And also, just to finish it off, sorry. The important thing from an eco-friendly point of view is that people don't realize that 80%. Of all agricultural land is actually used to make food for the animals. So, you know, it's funny when they say, oh, but you vegans are deforesting the Amazon for the soy.

Actually 80% of that soy goes to feed the animals that we eat. If we all became vegans and we didn't have the animals to feed and we let them, you know, leave, leave instead, um, we would be able to rewild 75% of farmland. I mean, let it sink in. 75% of farmed land, which is a huge percentage of actually the land we live on right now.

Mm-hmm. That is, that is quite a lot. Yeah. It's, our impact could be huge. And only by deciding not to eat meat. No, no animal products, huh? 'cause there is very little difference. Um, because there's basically the same markets anyway. Mm. Um, then we can make a huge difference. Just, just, let's just start by reducing them.

Are we. Then see, I mean, quite frankly, my only regret is not to go vegan earlier in my life. If you ask me what regrets I have, that is the one. And it's becoming much easier as well. Yes. Oh, I mean, all of people who are vegan, let's say 10 years ago, I mean, I've only been two for six years. My friend and my family as well, of course, um, outta their own choice after we saw Cipi documentary, which I recommend everyone to see.

But yes, I mean, nowadays you find meat replacements that taste the same. They are actually, you know, they're healthier as well. Uh, they have even more proteins that they do. And even if you don't still. Some of the dishes that you can have are incredible and, uh, but even the butter, just replace the butter with, you know, the, the vegan butter, the things you can do.

Yeah. Yes. There's so many things. The milk, everything nowadays is just impossible not to be able to do vegan, and quite frankly, if you don't get the replacements, it's a lot cheaper as well. A lot. If we come back to the, the art, sorry to, just to circle back. I'm sure we could have the whole episode on veganism, but if we come back to the, to the arts that you do, I guess what I'm interested in is, you know, throughout your artistic career, what, what has influenced you?

And I'm sure that has changed probably over the years of your practice, but you know, I'm conscious that you, for instance, you know, you use. What we would regard as waste, you know, obviously your influence to pick that type of material, you know, those types of materials. So, so what, what, what are the influences, even if it's changed over the, the years?

It's a very good question. I think the influences are actually. Let's say two main ones. One is the object and one is the subject. So the object is the material. 'cause some of my pieces are material driven, so, you know, I will have, of course, I, I do have some focus, you know, that I'm following in, in my research, in my, uh, whatever, depending on whatever series, you know, I'm focusing on.

Um, and so some will be more appropriate than others. Obviously, but still, you know, again, sometimes I have to wait for years to get enough material for something. Um, although now of course I've got a great community of people get all the material for me, which is really good. Bus local, and I mean Wigman Street, uh, you know, in Central London where all the Porsche kitchen showrooms are.

They keep all the screw caps for me, for example, you know they're aluminum screw caps, so it's just, it's here and there. It's when I come home and I find some of the bags, you know, of trash that my neighbors left. I would just, the happiest being could be. So that is one thing that influences me a lot. The material, the other, of course.

What I want to talk about, right? And usually it's nature itself. And in fact, I'm realizing that, you know, I've done a few residencies, but quite frankly at the moment, the best residency that I can do is to go out when I'm and be an activist. So to go out with the Captain Paul Watson Foundation, you know, in Project one Wave or a Fish net zero, where they go and actually recover GGE from the ocean itself, it's.

I think everyone should try because then they realize it takes a second to lose something and it takes a whole weekend getting up at four in the morning and a lot of energy, uh, you know, with bulky items and, and a few divers going in just to recover a few lost or nets or, you know, lobster pots. And, uh, so and I, that is actually the best research I can get.

So that influences me a lot. In fact, I think that, uh, somehow I need to find a way to describe all this energy and how heavy everything is on a boat when you go out to try to recover this ghost net, you know that sometimes it's huge as well, and it's, I think it should be part of everyone's curriculum actually having to, or maybe, you know, just.

A week and a month or per term, every single one should just go and do this instead of working. They will be so good for society. I'm sure it would give many people a different perspective, and I think just listening to you talk both about the materials and the topics that you like to be, you want to talk about.

Have you seen kind of changes or evolution in terms of, well, probably changes in material, but an evolution, you know, changes in the material, but also an evolution in terms of what you wanna talk about? Yes. Yes. Okay. So, um. Okay. That's very interesting because I have to say, I like to, to me, art is research.

People don't realize 50% of an artist's life is research, 30% is marketing yourself and trying to communicate it to other people and 20%, you know, it is actually making it. So, you know, I like to be in my studio all the time, but unfortunately it doesn't happen. And the whole day in the studio is a luxury.

Um, but, um. I have noticed changes in, uh, material. Unfortunately, I have to say that when sometimes some of the material, for example, the plastic, they have changed into biodegradable material, which most of the time though it's, you know, it's compostable, but most of the time it requires a special, uh, chemical reaction to happen.

So. Some special conditions to make it happen. Therefore, you know, it's not that you can compost everything at home in your own garden, but even those did not last much. For example, Al, they did some vegan als finally in compostable, you know, bottles and, uh, I don't think they lasted more than. Maybe a year or a couple of years.

So that's not good. They got rid of labels. Sorry, I'm taking one item for example, to show you as an example. Yeah, because this is quite common I think. But you know, they got rid of labels and al bottles and now they just, um, it's in engraved, basically in the bottle, the name and everything else you need to find.

It's on the sleeve around it, which is a paper sleeve still, if you ask me, the point is that we shouldn't be drinking al bottles. In the first place. Do you see? That is something that I think we could do without, because they do pollute a lot and. I dunno if you know, but plastic can only be recycled up to two, three times and after that it loses its value.

And also most of the time only, I think 2% of the plastic that we send to recycling, which is 9%, I think of the whole of it, um, is actually recycled because the rest is, um, contaminated. 'cause it's not clean enough or it ends up, you know, in the same bin as something else. So recycling doesn't work. Please do.

Please do your best to do it because of course it's still something, but it doesn't work. It was actually something that, um. The, the plastic lobby paid, you know, the, the oil lobby paid millions in, invested millions in to make us believe that that was a way out of the plastic crisis. They could, they could foresee already, but it's not working.

Sorry, does that answer the question? Yeah, no, it does. Um, it's just, you know, because I'm also thinking too, like, it's really interesting to, to hear that. But I was also thinking too, that. Not only the types of things we're throwing out in terms of the changes in the bottles and the plastics and stuff, but you know, I'm conscious that, you know, as a consumer society, there's fashions, there's fads, there's, you'll probably see, you know, a lot of something over, you know, maybe for a period of time, and then it gets replaced by something else.

Yes. Yes, yes. I'm just, look, I'm not, everything I'm saying here might sound very negative, but I'm just stating the truth. I think we always need to start from reality if we want to sort it out and solve it. Yeah, that doesn't mean that I'm not hopeful. Otherwise, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing at all.

I'd rather be enjoying, you know, my last years of life. As a queen, but no, I, I love life. I love nature. I do, I am hopeful. Uh, we are at a turning point though, so we need to really decide where we stand. And unfortunately if we want to sort it out, we have to be, give up some commodities that we now take for granted, but we shouldn't.

So I always say to people, just start. Thinking about certain things that you do every day. Yeah. Maybe one a day. Stop. Think, am I doing it right? What is the consequence of what I'm doing? Can I do it any other way? You know, can I sort this out? Do I really need what I'm having in the first place? You know, coffee, I forgot my, my reusable cup at home.

Shoot. You know, maybe I, uh, I'll ask for one of their, you know, recyclable cup. Actually, they're not that recyclable by the way, but that point stop and think, do I actually really need this takeaway coffee or can I do without it for a day? Have that exercise, you know, because I'm sure that it will make you feel good.

Just understanding that you can give something up for the greater good for as little as it is. And again, this is just an example and it's not even, you know, the most blatant one, but I think that helps. And then it's a journey. Um. It's a journey of discovery, really. One thing leads to another and another and another, and I forgot, you know, before you know it, you are making a huge difference.

So it's been such an interesting conversation and I think you've touched on a lot of things in terms of where we're at and, and, you know, what could, you know, potentially happen in the future. You know, as you say, we're at a turning point in terms of ecology and, you know, waste things and, and starting to really think about it, I guess looking forward as an artist.

I guess what's next for you? You know, are you still wanting to, to do your art or is there things you still want to do, or conversations you still wanna have with people? Yes. Ooh, wow. Okay. So, okay, let's just start from saying that I didn't have it easy because, uh, for what I do, I challenge the art world, uh, constantly.

Um, I constant, I challenge its system. Um. I challenge its style, I challenge its values in the sense that, you know, art nowadays is, uh, has to be like, you know, for example, I, when I re um, qualified in art, are you qualified in mosaics and fine art? Now already mosaics is not really seen as a fine art in its own.

So I'm already trying to push that boundary, you know, make it disappear if I can. And actually I'm pushing it both in the mosaic world, you know, using tiles that are completely. You know, don't exist in traditional mosaic, uh, and the art world by using material, you know, as tights in Mosaic world. So that already has been quite a challenge.

Secondly, of course, the fact that I believe that it's the, the need we have for, for, for perfection, uh, the. The fact that we are always striving for perfection in everything we do is actually the reason why we're finding ourselves in the six mass mass extinction. Um, you know, we don't make do, we don't accept it.

Something is not perfect. We throw it away. That is the basics that we throw away. Culture, you know, or it's not perfect anymore. I'll throw it away when I'll get a new one. You know, this. Whilst, of course art is very much based on techniques, you know, and I refuse that. Um, so much so that sometimes if people can tell that it's made of rubbish, I make a point next time that I'll do a similar piece, if any, to make sure that, you know, I have some more afraid edges or something that will show that, you know, because also I think that.

We confuse so many times, uh, art with artworks. We think that artworks are the art, but those are just a vessel of art. Art in itself is what's behind is the philosophy, is what the artist wants to communicate, um, through the artworks. Do you see? So when you ask me what I want to do is definitely continue this dialogue.

Um, the good thing is that finally I am receiving recognition of a different source, even from, you know, some, um. Fine arts establishments, which is great. Um, but, uh, as I'll keep doing it my own way anyway. And then we'll see where that leads me with the art world. But, uh, what I'm also doing at the moment is I just started a collaboration with, um, uh, business School of Birmingham University.

Birmingham Business School, basically, uh, where I, we, um, discussing how to quantify new values based on nature and how to rethink our entire system as a holistic structure and, um, the paramount importance of art, actually fostering empathy and, uh, new rules of evaluation, uh, and a new language of quantification where art is both the subject.

And the object of, uh, of this, uh, revolution. So it's extremely interesting and actually it, it, it was, uh, really heartwarming to see how, 'cause I was approached by the university in the first place, the accounting department of all, I was just gonna say that's fascinating. Um, apparently they're telling me that, uh, they were telling me that actually we will be doing this, uh, this, this, um, discussion.

Um, uh, club say, uh, once in a few months, also with the University of Manchester, which is also first as a collaboration. But they were telling me that although they have to teach traditional accounting because it's part of the curriculum, obviously they are. All focus, both university on this new reevaluation, finding new values on which to base our system, which is, you know, heartwarming to say the least.

Um, and, and it's a shift, like you're seeing a shift, aren't you? Yes. We need a shift from capitalism, quite frankly, because, you know, capitalism is based on infinite growth. Which cannot exist on a finite planet to start with, and it's exactly what is driving nature. Be bizarre, you know. It's the fact that we are consuming much more than what we should and we don't, we, if we based on profit rather than on the common good and on the lesser impact, you know, on the ecosystem, obviously it's gonna work against.

Did. So it, it's, um, yeah, it's, uh, so that I'm really focusing on, um, I'm also having, uh, a few collaborations again with the institute, with Project One Wave and with the Transport, uh, museum, the London Transport Museum as well, uh, uh, in a program with schools. So that's also something that I treasure. 'cause I don't know if you know, but I've been an art teacher as well at a primary school before, and I loved it.

It was just too time consuming. It was just either that or continuing with my new things. And then of course I have a few solos. I have the collective to think about in June. Um, I will have a few exhibitions also in Italy and Austria next year. I had to turn a few down this year actually because Wow.

It's so full already. So it's going really well. I think people are really starting to appreciate, you know, this, uh, I was gonna say, the leveling of engagement is really quite amazing. Yes, yes. I mean, I dunno, it feels like. Maybe it's a New Year's resolution, become more green. Call Fran, last week of January, I'm like, you wanna do this?

You wanna do this? Like, why guys? So much so that I invested in a, into a yearly planner. You know those that can be reused each year. Oh yes. Yeah. Let's just see what I'm doing here because, you know, obviously I don't want to get into something that I cannot fulfill, you know, at the 200%. Um, yeah. But yeah.

Well, great. Thank you. It's been so interesting speaking with you, and it's been quite the journey over this episode, so thanks for sharing your story and, and, um, you know, your passion around kind of, you know, making trash valuable and, and making art. It art really well. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Uh, thank you for having me.

You know, anytime you want to keep on going with, I don't know, the veganism or any other discussion.

Well, great. Well, thank you. It's been lovely to speak with you. Thank you. Thank you, Heather. Thanks for tuning into my conversation with Francesca. Through her artworks, she enables us to reflect and also sparks conversations around our relationship with consumption and the materials we discard More information on Francesca can be found in the show notes in the final episode of the season.

I be speaking with James Steadman. He's a theater maker and storyteller whose work touches on themes of mental health and queerness. You don't want to miss it.