S4, E6 Alison Aye

Alison Aye is a British artist originally from North East but now based in London and creates art through stitching. She makes sewn collage from papers and fabric, calling attention to 'throw-away society' and embracing humour, popular culture and current affairs. The episode was recorded on the 6 October 2024.

Website: www.alisonaye.com
Instagram: @alisonaye

Podcast details:
Podcast email: artiststalespodcast@gmail.com
Website: www.artiststales.net
Instagram: @artists_tales_podcast
Threads: @artists_tales_podcast

Transcript

Welcome to Artist Tales.  A podcast that features and celebrates artists from different walks of life. I'm your host, Heather Martin, and in this episode, I'm chatting with Alison Aye, who is an English artist whose art form is stitching. Welcome, Alison. Thanks, Heather. It's really good to have you. So, tell me a little bit about yourself and your background and how you got into stitching.

Well, I can't remember a time when I didn't stitch. My mum and Gran, both  sides were big stitchers and uh, you know, they made all of our clothes and there was always, the sewing machine was always out and there was various, you know, trousers lying about that my mum was halfway through taking up or whatever it was she was doing.

So I can't really remember a time when I didn't have access to So, um, yeah. Some kind of stitching or, or, or just making things in any way, even without stitching, you know, but just making dolls clothes and, um, little stuffed toys and little stuffed ornaments with the Christmas tree. I can't, yeah, I don't know when I, when I started it, but I can't, I, I can't think of a single time.

in my life, and I'm 58, when I wasn't stitching something. So it sounds like it's been going on for quite some time, and there's that family aspect as well, and you know, probably in sort of human memory, sewing and making clothes and that whole industry around, you know, making clothes and things, isn't that distant.

It's kind of a generation or two going back. Yeah, I mean, I mean it's had a bit of a resurgence hasn't it with the sewing bee and what have you making clothes But when I was a child all of our clothes were made and it wasn't for the love of it at all Although you wouldn't have known that looking at my mum's things because they were so beautifully, beautifully made and not rushed at all.

Maybe she did love doing it, but she didn't give that impression. It was always kind of a chore, but the end result didn't look like a chore. It looked like a labor of love, but they weren't done, like I say, for the love of it. They were done because it, in those days, it was really much cheaper to make clothes than it was to buy clothes.

I can remember if we bought a particular item of clothing in Marks and Spencer's say. I mean it was really expensive but it lasted you know it was like a like a winter coat or something. Although my mam did make winter coats as well but say on the rare occasion we had a winter coat from Marks and Spencer's it It was like a lot of money, but it was right to be a lot of money.

You know, a lot, it costs money to produce the wool and, you know, the sheep farmers and all the other different people that went into making that coat. Hopefully, I think, got paid for their labours. And then somewhere along the line, you know, this throw away society that we've started to live in, and live in full on now, although it's reversing a little bit.

But I do laugh at this new sort of eco, you know, these eco warriors. Some are genuine, but I do know People that just buy the latest thing every time it comes out, you know, whatever the latest food boxes they buy and the ethos surely is to just use something until it conks out. And then get your new one.

Uh, it goes against the grain a bit, but yeah, I mean, we wore clothes and in shoes till they wore out and then my mum would make another one, but now, you know, you can buy like a dress in Primark for a quarter of the price. It would cost you for the fabric. So people now make clothes. Like for the love of it, but it's not for the, it's not for people who aren't well off anymore.

People who, in my day, when I was young, the people who made clothes then were the not well off people. People who make clothes now, you have to be reasonably well off to buy the fabric. People who aren't well off. Would maybe buy something from Primark or from charity. I mean, all of my children, all of my children I've only got two.

All of the clothes that I bought for my children when they were little were all from charity shops because I would have liked to have made clothes for them. But again, it was just cheaper to buy from charity shops and time, you know, you've got to have time to sew things. So in terms of, you know, you're stitching creatively, so you know, there's, you've been sewing or, you know, you've been kind of over a number of years, kind of sewing and involved with that, but I've seen your artwork and maybe you can just tell the listener a little bit about what you do artistically, because you're not really making clothes to be fair.

You're not making things in that sense.  Um, but maybe you could just describe, you know, kind of talk about, you know, what you do, like how that has then moved into doing something more creative. Yes, I can see how. People are imagining me with my own fashion brand.  Yeah, well, you never know. You could be the next, uh, you know, Well, I did actually study fashion, um, at BTEC.

So I, but then, you know, I didn't really learn anything on that because everything, you know, all the pattern cutting and clothes making, I could already do that. We were making clothes. very young. What I do, I sort of, um, people who know my work would be surprised by this, but I am actually a machine sewer.

And I have to admit to myself that I'm not now because I've been hand stitching for a very long time, but it's always been just a, a sort of something to fill in the gap until I can get back on the machine again, which I think will shock people because my hand stitching is, is. I think people would just, who know me, would put hand stitching with me and think, Oh, she never works on a machine, but I love my sewing machine.

Like, I love my sewing machine, the way people love their car. I've only ever had three sewing machines. You know, again, once one conks out, get a new one. But I've always aspired to having a Bernina, but could never get one. They're quite expensive. Well, actually, it was 365 because my friend Kathy said, Oh, a pound for every day of the year.

And then it didn't seem so expensive. But, um, I got my first sewing machine when I was 12. And then somewhere along the line, that conked out and I got another one. And now I've got Bernina, which I would love to get back on. But to be on a Bernina or on a sewing machine, you need to be at home. And this is where the hand stitching comes in.

And my work with the hand stitching. In that, because I work full time and I don't have a studio, I've adapted my artwork to fit in with, well, to start with, with my commute. I don't really commute now. And so the hand stitching started because it was something I could do on the train. And so what I do is I saw, I was going to say I saw small bits and bobs and then put them together, but what I want to say actually is I saw newspaper.

But as I'm saying that, then I'm very aware that even that is something I can't do on a commute, it's too delicate. So I started sewing fabric, believe it or not,  just to be sewing something on the commute. And it became that I was just sewing bits and bobs and recording events that were happening in little tiny sections.

And then, eventually, joining them all together to make something big. And that's the essence of my work, is to take the small pockets of time that I have and make small, tiny things. And eventually, those small pockets of time will end up as a big amount of time. And those small pieces of work will be joined together and end up a big piece of work.

And it can sometimes take me two or three years. to finish a piece of work, partly because it's quite intricate and small and hand stitched, and partly because I just have these small pockets of time in which to work. And so that's one aspect. And the newspaper aspect, stitching the newspaper, is along the same principles, except that I can only do this at home, because stitching newspaper is extremely extremely delicate thing to do.

And I often, people say, Oh, why does this not rip? And I think, well, it does rip. That's my 15th attempt at that particular,  it rips all the time. And so I have to be sitting at home quite still to do it. And so the newspaper side of my work, which I love is a much, much slower practice because it's something I can't carry around with me.

And that again follows the same principle of doing a tiny weenie bit every day if I can, maybe 15 minutes a day sewing some newspaper and then eventually, hopefully, at the end of the year I have something to show for it. And the thing that I, there's something that I've been working on since the 2014 which is where I Get the free paper the Metro usually on the way to work and for the entire year Every day, I cut out a face from the newspaper And so all I stitch that day is one single face sometimes quite tiny face depending on what I cut out.

And then at the end of the year, it's sort of a record of the year. It's a face each day for the whole year. And I've been doing that since 2015. So I rarely finish. I mean, I, I don't, I've barely gone into double figures, I think, with my work because it takes so long. to make. But I think essentially what I do is document things that are happening around me, either in my house, in my street, in my town, in my city, or in the country or in the world, in various degrees.

Some of it's very personal and some of it isn't at all personal. It applies to us all as humans. And that, you know, I find your work really quite interesting and Now that I understand the kind of the process you go through, it's, it makes even more sense in terms of looking at it. The thing that really strikes me, and it's, I have to say, it's how I describe it, or how I kind of perceive it, anyway.

It's kind of almost like a combination of a kind of a collage, a, but in a, like a collage narrative, but in a, I don't want to say, I don't know if like um, You know, uh, quilting blank, because I know a lot of people, you know, quilting is actually quite different. But it's kind of mashing up some of these styles of kind of that narrative of what's going on in the world you're in, I guess, probably influenced by your own kind of lived experience and narrative of what you're kind of going through.

But it's almost that kind of taking bits of information, which I think we're, as human beings, we kind of do that anyway on, on one level. But you know, just as you're talking, but also just thinking about your work, it kind of, that's what makes me. Think of, or that's kind of how I perceive it, and I'm just wondering, kind of, what other feedback, you know, people who have seen your work, like, what kind of, what kind of reaction you get?

It's never what people are expecting, because I, I never know what to say when people say, what, what's your work? What do you do? And then if you say stitching, they assume a certain thing, as you would. And then if I say I'm a collage, which I do, depending on what mood I'm in, I say I'm a collage artist.

Because it is collage, but again, it's not what the person is expecting. But generally I just sort of get my phone out if people persist and, uh, Show them, but it's, it's never what they're expecting. But even on my phone, really, it's something that you have to see, I think. It's really hard to describe it.

And, uh, photographs, I don't think photographs do anybody's, well, uh, maybe 80 percent of people's work, photographs don't do justice to. And the other 20 percent photographs improve it. And with mine, photographs don't do justice to my work. Apart from anything else, if you, if I try to sort of do, the stitching is very, very tiny.

And if you sort of close up on the stitching to show the stitching, because it's a newspaper,  Then, the whole face goes, like, pixelated, because it's not a good quality newspaper print. And so then it just looks like a very badly done print. But that, I mean, I'm not very good at photography, so, you know, there's an element of that too, but, um.

But, I, I mean, I, I'm, basically making collage by stitching newspaper to cloth. And I think, you know, it's really interesting that you described that because I think I was kind of perceiving that as your artwork as that as well, but I think in terms of taking pictures of it, I think, you know, I think you're right in the sense that some work in.

It's very difficult to kind of capture it. You know, the essence that, well, I said the essence of it to kind of capture it properly in the sense that, you know, what you're working on and what you're creating is actually quite tactile. And so seeing it, you know, I'd say in person or seeing it for real is a very different experience than to seeing it as an image, because it's something to me that you do need to see,  you know, as I say in person, but you know, in, in for real rather than a picture.

Yes, no, I completely agree. And I do find it hard to describe. Because, you know, people I mean, textile art's come a long, long way. I don't even know if I'm a textile I mean, because I stitch paper to cloth, I go into the textile bracket. But I entered an open call recently where I can't remember exactly the percentage.

But it said in order to qualify for this, I don't know, let's say 70%, I don't know what it was, but it said something like 70 percent of the work must be stitched. And I, and I looked and I thought, well, I don't think 70 percent of my work is stitched. And so I didn't know where I entered, but I don't know whether I actually fit the bill.

So I, I don't, I mean, it's, it's a small, a small percentage of my work is stitching. Really. It's mainly image that I've cut from somewhere else. Another big part of my work that I didn't mention is recording. Um, so I cut things out of newspapers.  Make the images into a collage, but I also make sure that I record the newspaper article that the face or whatever happens to be that I've cut out, sometimes it's just someone's feet so that, um, you can.

sort of look online and see whose feet they are and what the story was and who took the photograph and who wrote the article and which newspaper it came from. If I have that information sometimes they don't give you the photographer or um, sometimes the writer doesn't even get a mention. It doesn't say who wrote the article but whatever information I can get I always record where, where my materials came from and that actually can sometimes take longer than the stitching and the stitching takes ages.

But I just, uh, I don't know, it's really important to me to have all of that. It just seems a bit rude to cut someone's feet out and then not say who the feet belong to and who took the photograph of those feet and I don't know, it just seems rude to me not to do that. And it kind of gives context to, to the image that you're actually  incorporating,  but as you're talking, the word that comes to me is multidisciplinary  in the sense that, you know, and I think this is probably quite common in the arts or, you know, artistic people where I think often society pigeonholes people in terms of, you know, you do this or you do that, you're a photographer, you're a stitcher, you're a, graphic artist, or you know, something else, where I think often it's much more, that the edges are much more frayed or much more blended, and I've, you know, what you're describing actually, you know, particularly now I'm doing this podcast and I'm speaking to other artists, you know, I might know them for one thing, but they're actually involved, they do other things as well, and So I think it's very hard to just be one thing if you're an artist.

And, you know, I would describe myself as a photographer, but I also podcast and I've gotten into sound recordings, you know, ambient sound recordings. So I might be known for one thing or one or two things, but I'm finding as I'm doing different things that they kind of blend a little bit together, you know, or I'm kind of exploring different things.

And that's kind of what I'm hearing from you. And always,  In everything, sort of, one thing leads to another, doesn't it? You read a book, and that leads to about five other books that are mentioned during that book, even in fiction. You know, and then those lead to other things, and I don't know, you're making something, and you have some offcuts, and they lead to something else, or you find something in the street, and that leads to something else.

And it's, um, sometimes I think we sort of pigeonhole ourselves. You know, it's good to just sort of go, go with the flow.  Indeed. And, and I think, you know, what you're talking about is kind of the things that influence you. And it can be, like you say, it's, it can be a book, it can be. Something that you see in a gallery, or it can be an off cut, or it can be something. 

And I am frequently going to an art gallery, and often what it is, and it's not necessarily to see photography stuff, although, because that's, you know, that is my main interest, or that's what I do artistically predominantly. But I'll go and see almost everything. Anything. And it's, it, it is getting those ideas.

It's kind of sparking something. And sometimes even the things that perhaps don't land or I'm not quite engaging with or connecting with, I'm like, that's fine. It's well worth the money going to see that. Or, you know, if it's paid or, you know, well worth seeing if it's free or whatever. Because sometimes it's kind of seeing things that perhaps you're not as into, or may not like as well, or don't connect with, but figuring out why. 

And that can be equally as important to, you know, as seeing something that really, you really engage with and really inspires you in a particular way, you know, things that you don't like, it's actually, yeah, but why is it?  And I find that equally important. And I don't know if you've experienced a similar sort of thing.

Yeah, and particularly with visiting art galleries, really, in that I generally now mainly only go to free things, and I, the past few years, well, to go back, I worked for 12 years in the portrait gallery, up until COVID. When the people who don't know the Portrait Gallery closed, as did all the museums and art galleries during COVID, but the Portrait Gallery was due to close about two months later for a five year refurbishment.

And so our contracts were up then, so I haven't worked in the Portrait Gallery since just before COVID. But the perk of the job, and I wasn't sort of high up curator, I was either on the ticket desk to start with, or, you know, wandering around the rooms just, um, guiding people and answering questions and, you know, making sure people didn't touch things, that kind of thing.

But the perk was that, um, the portrait gallery, along with most other  huge London museums and galleries, they had this thing called the reciprocal agreement in which I could just show my portrait gallery pass to the Tate, the Harewood, and Kew Gardens. There was all kinds of places all over the country.

And you just, you couldn't go in the first two weeks of a show or the last two weeks of a show, but you could go and just see anything. And I really did. I went to see everything, stuff that I would never ever have paid for. And some of the things I saw, they were just brilliant. And I didn't, you know, I didn't think, Oh, this is something I wouldn't definitely have paid to see.

Turned out to be fantastic and led to a whole load of things. So there's definitely, um, there's definitely a benefit in seeing things that you wouldn't normally see. And so people are, people are really missing out. I mean, it's financial purely, cause you just can't go to see everything. It's seeing a exhibition is.

It's really expensive these days. It is. And so you carefully have to pick and choose and really only go to the things that you really, really want to go to. And so there's a whole load of stuff just going under the net. And for 12 years I had that and it was just really luxurious.  It's just brilliant. I mean, imagine just being able to go to anywhere. 

that you wanted just because you were passing, pop in. And also, you know, like, um, I mean, I went to see the Van Gogh, no, not Van Gogh, sorry, Picasso on paper at the Royal Academy about 14 times. Just go in and out, in and out. I mean, every, it was open late on a Friday night, and the portrait gallery closed at six.

And every Friday night, because my train home went at five past six, which I would always miss. Or 25 to 7, so I'd be hanging around at the station for half an hour anyway. So I used to zoom up to the Royal Academy on foot, have an hour in with Picasso on paper, which was sublime, and then go home and I'd maybe get home a half an hour later than I would have done anyway.

All for free and just to, you know, just wander and not feel under pressure that you have to see absolutely everything because you've paid your 20 quid and you want to get your money's worth. Just to walk in and just go to one room or just go to see one specific thing that somebody was standing in front of last time, how dare they?

Yeah, yeah, so is the way.  Absolute, absolute luxury, you know, it's brilliant. It's like just opening yourself up to things that you wouldn't normally do. Yeah, it was great to be in that position. Great. Yeah, and I think, you know, you're right. It's, it's a challenge. You know, many of the museums are, well, museums and art galleries, there's a free element, but then they have paid exhibitions that you have to pay for.

And, and that can be a challenge because, you know, It can, as you say, it's gotten quite expensive, you know, at least there is some free stuff that, that you can see, which is good. And I think it makes, you know, at least some of it accessible. Yeah. But I think to somewhere like London, the challenge I have is just so, there's just so much, I mean, you know, you think of London, New York, Paris, you know, all these big cities have all these galleries and things.

And it's just, you know, how many hours in a day do you have?  I know, I know. Yeah. But you can, I mean, I'm now, I'm really savvy now about, I do see a lot of free stuff, which because I was in this privileged position before, uh, you know, I didn't hardly, I, I went to the pay, because, you know, a lot of these things in the paying exhibitions have come from all over the world and it's the only chance you'll get to see.

They're like the Van Gogh exhibition at the National Gallery. You know, they brought stuff from all over the world there that only be here. This for the duration of the show, probably, but because I'm missing a lot of the paying things now, I really try to see all of the free stuff. And one thing that I've started doing that I was too scared to do previously because it's so intimidating is to go to Galleries like Houser and Worth and the galleries on Cork Street and around the Mayfair area and, you know, you walk in and you feel really out of place and, well, walk in I say, it takes you 10 hours to find the door.

You know, they disguise the door so that people, it's just all this one big pane of glass and you're thinking, how do I get in? But I've, I've thought, no, I'm going to do this and a couple of years ago I started doing that. And there's some great, great exhibitions on in these places and they're all free and obviously they want people to go in and buy things, but there's also people like me who just go to look at the art and you can see some great things if you do your research all for free.

And also the advantage of these places, apart from You know, some of the, sometimes they look at you like, you know, a bit snooty. But the, the advantage is that there's never anyone in there. Yeah. You're, you're lucky if there's one other person in there. And you've can, you've got the whole place to yourself apart from the security guard.

And there's, I've seen some great stuff and nice toilets. True. Yes.  The other thing I quite like, or I'm into as well, is You know, either like artists open house type schemes, you know, you get them in certain parts of London or you, you know, elsewhere, cause I've also, you know, been to one in, I think Southeast Kent or in East Kent.

I'm thinking like Whitstable Way, Canterbury, you know, they have one, I think in October. Or even, you know, in my bit of South London, there's like a trail, an art trail each year. And, you know, the thing I like about that is, A, it's free, B, it's, you know, free as in to go look at stuff. Many of the artists are selling as well, if you choose to sell.

But it's, it's kind of seeing very local art. It's seeing like local art in terms of local artists. It's supporting local artists, it's supporting, you know, I'm just thinking, you know, if it's an art trail, sometimes it's in businesses, so you're supporting local businesses. But I like that because it's a bit of a community feel.

And it's, you know, you're right in terms of some of these established galleries in like Mayfair and these more luxurious places. But there's also in some areas that perhaps are not as affluent or not as, you know, well off as some areas of London, you get sort of these art trails and artists that are involved in these initiatives and it's really interesting to see what people are doing and what they're up to.

Yeah. And again, it's seeing people's art and different things and it's accessible as well. Yeah. Well, they are even better, I think. I mean, those sort of Mayfair galleries, what's good about them is you can go in and see like Tracey Emin's work, you know, But the local trails and things, and South London, there's loads of them in South London.

And they are absolutely brilliant. There's one in Dulwich that my friend Henny and Gina always take part in, and I always go to that one. Can't remember what, I think it's called the East Dulwich Art Trail. But there's hundreds and hundreds of people involved in that. And, um, it's absolutely impossible to, you're lucky if you can maybe see three or four, that's really spread out as well.

And, uh, yeah, I always end up huffing people when they find out I've been and I didn't go to see them. But you think, well, that's like two bus rides from where I was, you know, give us a break.  Yeah. But they are, I mean, they're brilliant. And, you know, all these art groups and, you know, all these artists run spaces and it's. 

It's, they're brilliant, absolutely brilliant. So, you know, if you, if you look, there's lots of free things to see out there. Like you say, a lot of the artists are selling and it's really good if you can support them and buy something as well, but if not, then it's just, You know, nice to, like, Henny and Gina, they always have a caff in theirs, they make cakes and they sell cakes and biscuits and things for charity.

And so even if you, sort of, can't afford to buy the art, you know, it's a piece of cake. True, true. Now, I do know, I think it's this year, you managed to get into the, it was the summer show at the Royal Academy, wasn't it? Yes. Tell me a bit about that. Well  Where to start Heather?  Start from the beginning.

Well, I'd been entering the Royal Academy Summer Show, not for a solid 30, I think it was 31 years, but I hadn't entered 31  times. There were little gaps within that when I had tiny babies and things. So I might, I might have missed a couple of years. But it was 31 years worth of entering. I think I entered about 28 times, once.

I always only enter one piece. You can, it's 40 now to enter the Royal Academy Summer Show. I can remember when it was 8 and you can enter a certain amount. So, you know, people, if they're entering too, 80, it's just astronomical. But I've, I've got a rule with all open calls. I only ever enter one. piece. I think I've, unless it's like 5 entry, I might enter too, but that's very unusual.

And so I've entered one piece over a period, about 28 or 29 times over a period of 31 years. And every single time I get the, we are sorry, we regret to inform you on this occasion. You're fabulous. We love your work. Please enter again. But you didn't, uh, you weren't successful this year. And so it became. a bit of a joke.

And about, I don't know, about seven or eight years ago, I started to turn the rejections into an art piece. So I'll just try and explain that in that every New Year's Eve, and I have absolutely no idea why I do this. I know that you might ask me later on why I do what I do. I'm telling you now Heather, I've no idea why I do what I do. 

Um, every New Year's Eve. I saw the year that's approaching onto some cloth, so sort of New Year's Eve this year, I stitched 2024 onto a piece of cloth, and then I keep that piece of cloth until the entry to the Royal Academy, Somershore is around about. Well it starts in January and the deadline is about Valentine's Day and then you enter and then you wait and I can't remember when the first round of results are out but it's about May time I think and so in May time I generally get the rejection letter and at that point I get this year that I've stitched and I put a big cross. 

And then I just forget about it until the next year comes. But about, I don't know, about 10 years ago or so, I started stitching all these big crosses together. And then I went back to my first, I thought, well, I'm going to make this into a big piece and stitch every year that I've entered and put a cross through it.

So 1993 was the first year I entered. So I did that. And then I just, Put a load of crosses through all of my rejections and then in 2022, so if you imagine a big square and it's got all of these years all over it, big crosses and then in the bottom right hand corner I've now got 2022 stitched with no cross through it yet.

So I enter that for the 2022 Royal Academy Summer Show. And that gets rejected too. So I put a cross through that. But during all of my rejections, which in the latter years, I'd been recording on Instagram, I, you know, how everyone goes on there saying, well, who I got accepted. And then mine was always rejected again on this big cross through.

This guy called Luke McMahon got in touch with me from the BBC and he found me on Instagram and he telephoned me, well he emailed first and said could I call you and then he telephoned me and said would I be interested in a documentary they were making about the summer show and the following artists through the process.

of entering and everything. And this was before I'd been rejected. So this was at the beginning of the year when I'd entered. This was the 2022 one where I'd actually entered a piece about being rejected. And, uh, so at the time when the documentary was being made and I reluctant, I didn't want to do it at all.

And I forced myself out of my comfort zone and did it. And I'm so pleased I did. It was a great experience, but at the point of filming, they came to the house. And they filmed me a little bit, and we didn't know, at this point, whether I was going to be accepted or not. And he, at the time, he was going around the country, visiting, I think about 30 or 40 artists, there were a lot of artists.

And they kept saying, you may not be in the documentary, we can't put everyone in, we have to say that, so fair enough. So they were going around filming people who I assume he'd also found on Instagram and following them, you know, in their studios and stuff. And then when it came to the day of, they were, uh, you know, when the email came, 'cause it used to be, you know, it used to be an actual letter, but  , it's an email now.

And so when the email came they were then going around filming all these artists they'd selected getting their, Oh, I've been, I've been accepted or I've been rejected. And so the email came about, usually comes midday. And so they'd said to me, could you not open it until We get there  because we want, you know, we want it to be authentic.

And I said, yeah, no problem. Anyway, they got to me, it was quite late. It was about six, six o'clock at night and I hadn't opened it yet. And he said, I hope you get in Alison, because we've been to however many, and nobody's got accepted yet. And we don't know what to do because everybody that we've chosen so far, nobody's got accepted.

Anyway, so he said, so I've got a good feeling, you know, because the odds are with you now. Anyway, I opened it and I'd been rejected as per usual. And so that was that. And he said, right. And then I never heard anything for quite a while. And also I was, it was on the understanding that, you know, they couldn't put everyone in there and stuff.

And then when it got nearer to sort of the fact when the show was about to start and varnishing day and everything, Luke rang me again and said, yeah, we're going to put you in the show. And, um, we've got someone to present it. And at this point, the person I'm about to say wasn't that well known. And he said to me, have you heard of Joe Lycett?

And I had, and it's hard to imagine you saying that now because he's really, he's on everything. It was before he, this was before Joe Lycett went on the Laura Kunzberg show. So, you know, he got a bit more well known then and now he's everywhere you look. But he said, have you heard of Joe Lycett? And I said, yeah, I have actually.

And he said, well, We, we, he's going to present the show and he would, whether this is actually true, but the way Luke relayed it to me was this was Joe Lycett's idea. He said, uh, Joe would really like to smuggle your work in to the Royal Academy and maybe pin it up somewhere. And he said, is there any way you can sort of make it so it can be attached?

to anything. So I said, yeah, yeah, I can put Velcro on it or I can, well, I, what I put safety pin, I gave them two options. They could either safety pin it to something or I put Velcro along the back of it. And then it was the kind of Velcro that sticks. I stitched it, but the other side could stick to something.

So I was in the program. It was really, it was really funny. They did a lovely job. And, um, Joe Lysak took my work in on varnishing day and Velcroed it to the buffet table.  And it stayed there, it stayed there for quite a while. That was just perfect. And so that was that. And then in 2023, I entered again and everybody was saying, Oh, this is your year now after last year rejected again.

And then this year I finally. to the summer show and it felt really weird. Yeah, so it was really nice. I enjoyed it. And also it led to so many other things. There was a journalist from the Observer who've been following me on Instagram and said, she rang me and, or she emailed first. And then she said, can I interview you for an article, which I imagined would just be a small article.

And it was like a full page spread in the Observer about me finally getting into the summer show. We talked. It was all completely off the cuff. It was all done in about three days. And people said, Oh, do you know someone in the Observer? And I was like, No. She just found me on Instagram. I know no one is it.

I don't know anyone with any connections whatsoever. She rang me on the Wednesday. She emailed me on the Wednesday, and I was at work and I got it about half five and it just simply said who she was. Was I interested in being interviewed for an Observer article? So I replied on the Wednesday evening saying, yes, when's good?

And she said, could I ring you tomorrow? And I said, well, I'm at work tomorrow. It is five o'clock. I can't remember anyway, but she, it was the next day that she interviewed me on the telephone. I talked total drivel for about an hour and a half on the telephone. I couldn't remember a thing I said once I put the phone down.

And she said, Oh, you know, it'll be in the observer. I was thinking weeks ahead, weeks ahead. And I went into work on the Friday morning. No. So she must've written it all up from that gobbledygook that I gave her absolutely brilliant article. How she did that. I don't know. She must've done it all on that Friday.

So just two days. And then on the Saturday, I went into work and people were ringing me to say I was on the Guardian online. And I went on and there I was on the Guardian online and then the next day it was in the Observer. Wow. And it was all just in like a four day, it was amazing and it was a lovely article, uh, she, how she did that from the Rubbish that I fed her, I don't know.

Alison, you don't speak rubbish, I have to tell you. Well, that, that's, uh, you know, sounds like quite the experience. Yeah, it was great. So, my last question that I ask pretty much everyone is, what's next? Do you have any upcoming plans or projects in the pipeline? Not really, I'm a member of the 62 group, which is a group of textile artists and I just became a member last year and I'm really, really pleased with this.

They're brilliant and I'm so thrilled to be part of the group. So I imagine that they, you know, there will be exhibitions around that in the coming year, and I'm also a member of Art Can, and I imagine there'll be exhibitions with that that I may have the opportunity to be part of, uh, but I don't know yet.

I'm also going to be part of an exhibition in the Barbican Library in 2025. That's for the entire month of August. There's me and one other artist and I don't know who the other artist is, so that's quite exciting. The librarian there has put me with someone and I don't know who they are, so I'm quite excited to find out who they are.

But yeah, apart from that, no, I mean, generally things for me aren't planned that far ahead anyway. I think I can get incredibly nervous with too much, too much warning ahead of things. It's best to do things off the cuff, I think, from my point of view. Fair enough. And that's, you know, you do, it sounds like you do have, you know, a few things on the horizon, but as you see, it's kind of nice to, to be a bit more fluid in, in sort of your projects and things.

So anyway, it's been really lovely speaking with you. It's been really interesting. So thanks for being a guest on this podcast. Thank you for asking me Heather. Really, I've really enjoyed it. I've really enjoyed it. Thank you very much. And also, completely out of my comfort zone. So, thank you for that too.

Thank you. Well, you've done brilliantly. So, you know, I think you've done very well. So, thank you. Thanks, Heather.  I really appreciate you listening to this episode with Alison. I hope you enjoyed it. For more information about Alison, including her social media handles, check out the episode notes. I'd really appreciate it if you could also rate and review the podcast on the podcast apps.

In the next episode, I have a really interesting conversation with two sisters, Sarah and Raquel Weinberg, who are visual artists focusing on watercolor, sculpture, and photography. I look forward to you joining me for the next episode.